Content material Folks: Analysis, Greek Mythology and The Energy of Podcasts
On Content material Folks, Meredith Farley interviews artistic professionals and leaders to get a behind-the-scenes have a look at their profession experiences and switch that into actionable recommendation for listeners. Tune in to listen to from consultants in varied media, and get impressed to search out contentment in your personal artistic profession.
Episode #12 Abstract
Liv Albert is the creator and host of the podcast “Let’s Discuss About Myths, Child!” She chats with Meredith Farley on this episode about analysis, studying, Greek mythology, podcasting, the facility of a terrific story and extra. Hear alongside to search out inspiration on your personal artistic endeavors.
Content material Folks: Analysis, Greek Mythology and The Energy of Podcasts
On this episode of Content material Folks, I chat with Liv Albert, creator and host of the podcast “Let’s Discuss About Myths, Child!”. Together with her diploma in English Literature & Classics, she tells historical tales in a enjoyable, witty approach. She not solely writes, produces and hosts her podcast, however she’s additionally an writer of two Greek mythology books.
Liv fell in love with Greek mythology round seventh grade, when she noticed a ‘90’s miniseries on “The Odyssey.” Since then, she’s explored historical sources and honed her analysis abilities to deliver these timeless tales to life.
“Let’s Discuss About Myths, Child!” began out as a enjoyable thought, however Liv shortly realized that it had a lot extra to supply — each to her listeners and her life.
Listed here are a number of extra issues we speak about in between all of the myths and magic:
- The significance of giving your self time to observe and enhance.
- Dealing with feedback and not-so-constructive criticism.
- Discovering and understanding tales that matter.
Thanks for listening!
– Meredith Farley, Host of Content material Folks
Extra Content material for Content material Folks
Liv’s podcast: Try “Let’s Talk About Myths, Baby!”
Liv’s e-book: Get your intro to the greats in “Greek Mythology: The Gods, Goddesses, and Heroes Handbook.”
Brafton: We might not be mythological Greek heroes, however we are advertising and marketing heroes. Discover out why in our digital advertising and marketing publication.
Meredith’s publication: Try Meredith’s newsletter (additionally referred to as Content material Folks).
Podcast Transcript:
Meredith: Hey, everybody, and welcome to Content material Folks. Tune in to listen to from creatives, leaders, and consultants in varied media. I’m your host, Meredith Farley.
Ian: And I’m the present’s producer, Ian Servin.
Meredith: Hey, Ian.
Right now, we talked to Liv Albert. Liv’s the creator, host, and producer of the very talked-about Greek and Roman mythology podcast, Let’s Discuss About Myths, Child. I like Liv’s present. I used to be actually glad to speak to her. If you happen to’re not aware of it, it’s a twice weekly podcast during which Liv dives deep into the main points of historical Greek and Roman myths and the historical past that surrounded them. She brings a extremely cool perspective, plenty of humor, sarcasm, and a contemporary lens to those tales. And she or he’s constructed up a extremely enormous listener face. The present will get tens of millions of downloads per yr. We talked to Liv concerning the origins of the present and what she’s discovered constructing such a profitable podcast from the bottom up.
Ian: Clearly, podcasts have been round for some time, however I really feel like so many different issues, they actually blew up in the course of the pandemic. So it was tremendous cool to speak to somebody who actually constructed a present from the bottom up and grew an viewers and a group round it. Podcasts are clearly an excellent fascinating format for content material. And with the entire consideration it’s been getting recently, it’s one thing that lots of people are taking a look at. And Liv had so many nice issues to say, not nearly what makes a podcast particular, but in addition what makes good content material and how one can take your personal ardour and enthusiasm to make one thing that’s going to attach with an viewers.
Meredith: Yeah, it was nice to listen to from her on that. So with out additional ado, we hope you prefer it. Right here’s our convo.
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Meredith: Thanks a lot for becoming a member of content material folks and being on this episode.
Liv: Thanks a lot for having me. It’s very good.
Meredith: I’m so excited. I do know we had been simply chatting a second in the past about this, however I’ve been a very long time listener of your podcast. My pal Brianna really turned me on to let’s speak about myths, child. And she or he was really additionally on a later episode of this podcast.
So for listeners who aren’t aware of you, might you share a little bit bit about who you’re and what your podcast is about?
Liv: Yeah, so I’m Liv Albert. I created and host the podcast, let’s speak about myths, child, which is a factor I nonetheless dislike saying in entrance of different folks and simply the identify, not the podcast, clearly. Yeah, I began it about 5 and a half years in the past. I speak about Greek mythology. I retell tales and over the previous few years, I’ve taken to talking with like lecturers and consultants and authors and all these completely different unimaginable folks concerning the historical world and mainly each aspect at this level. I’ll take something if it options the traditional Mediterranean in any respect. That’s simply mainly my whole life at this level.
Meredith: When did your love of Greek mythology start and what do you suppose drew you to it?
Liv: So humorous, I get requested this like actually on a regular basis and I by no means have a terrific reply as a result of it’s mainly that like I’ve cherished it since I used to be a child, however I don’t bear in mind like the place that got here from particularly aside from I used to be a baby. I do bear in mind in grade seven and I say grade seven as a result of I’m Canadian. That’ll come out fairly fast.
I had this instructor who not solely taught us Greek mythology, but in addition he had us watch the there’s like this mini collection from the 90s that like I’m of an age the place after I was in grade seven and for him to point out us, it meant that he had like a VHS recording that he needed to roll a TV into the room and play this and we needed to quick ahead the commercials as a result of it was recorded from TV and all that.
However yeah, it was like this mini collection of the Odyssey and that’s all I bear in mind is like having to look at that. I barely bear in mind what’s in it. I simply bear in mind watching that and have it’s like if it wasn’t the catalyst, it simply drew me deeper into Greek mythology
Meredith: For positive. I feel we’re of the identical age, so just like the previous recollections. I feel I watched that. What’s the identify of the man that’s in it? It’s like Armand.
Liv: Sure, yeah, precisely Armand, one thing in quite a bit and like I don’t bear in mind what elements of the odyssey it featured, I simply know, we watched it.
Meredith: Oh my, I yeah, I completely keep in mind that one and I feel that was my intro to Greek mythology as effectively, though I didn’t keep it up in the identical approach. That’s actually that’s fascinating.
So all proper, myths, I consider it as the unique content material and I’m actually tempted to dive proper into questions on myths as a result of I do know you’re such an professional, however as a result of this podcast is about artistic work and plenty of creatives are listening, I need to one, acknowledge that you’ve achieved a major success by your content material and two, be sure that as we go, I’m doing my greatest to mine your experiences for actionable recommendation for listeners who additionally may need to create one thing for themselves.
And so first, one factor I’m very interested in is to ask you to share a little bit bit concerning the everyday work of me teaming akin to profitable and it will appear to me actually labor and analysis heavy podcast, like what goes into an episode and what’s per week or two in your life typically like?
Liv: Yeah, so first I’d advocate to anybody trying to do that to not do it the way in which that I’ve finished it, which is that I’m now incapable of relinquishing management on so many issues. And whereas I do have an assistant now, she mainly simply does the stuff that I’d have by no means had time to do if I didn’t have her.
So like hiring her simply gave us extra stuff. It didn’t take a lot off of my plate as a result of I’m a multitude. However that’s all to say, yeah, it’s extremely labor intensive. I usually simply always search for ways in which I could make it simpler on myself and I’ve but to search out them. However mainly, I launch two episodes of the podcast each week on Tuesdays. I do what I name a story episode. It’s the place it’s simply me telling tales from Greek mythology. Or on this case proper now, I’m within the midst of this massive historical past collection on Sparta, which is much more analysis intensive in a approach that makes me query every thing I’ve ever finished. However for the common episodes, for the Greek fantasy episodes, it does require plenty of analysis.
Fortunately, I’m fairly good at analysis now. And one of many issues that’s humorous is I can’t even actually surrender the analysis side to my assistant as a result of every thing I do in analysis, I do like concurrently whereas writing it. So I’ll have eight books open round me, like 10 completely different web sites. And I’m simply studying this stuff and typing the script as I’m going. And so these episodes at all times have a script. It sounds actually off the cuff plenty of the time, I prefer to suppose at the very least, however it’s utterly scripted for essentially the most half. It’s similar to a stream of consciousness scripted. So it nonetheless appears like an individual rambling. However these are like 5 to 6 thousand phrases that I’m writing and researching each week.
After which Friday episodes are both like, I’ll simply learn one thing from the traditional world that’s like a translation that’s within the public area. And thus is like copyright free, or I will likely be talking to 2 lecturers, consultants, authors and issues like that. In order that requires me to schedule and file and edit these conversations, which is why I typically do the studying episodes, as a result of they’re significantly simpler. So after I must make my life a little bit bit nicer in per week, I’ll do a kind of as an alternative. However usually I don’t as a result of I’ve too many wonderful people who I’ve already recorded with or need to file with. And it simply finally ends up like that. So like I’m recording with any individual tomorrow. And so it, I yeah, it’s plenty of work, mainly, if that solutions the query. Nevertheless it’s clearly finished me effectively.
Meredith: Yeah, that’s actually fascinating. As you’re speaking, it’s reminding me a little bit little bit of possibly like startup founders who’ve created one thing that’s like wholly of them. And even determining the way to in any approach divide and delegate feels completely unattainable. So what it appears like is such an fascinating course of.
So you’re researching and writing in actual time. And that’s for the not, however the scripted, however the simply you Tuesday episode. And then you definately’re additionally coordinating, researching and enhancing the dialog episodes. And that’s occurring in actual time each week. Or do you do a number of forward of time? Like, how do you’re employed that?
Liv: I attempt to do a number of forward of time. However clearly, as a result of they’re so labor intensive, it’s usually not likely potential as a result of there’s solely so many phrases you may write in per week. And when one episode is 5 to six,000, additionally they continue to grow. Prefer it was extra like three to 4,000. And I simply preserve getting wordier and having an excessive amount of to say in each episode. In order that’s partially on me.
However I’m additionally actually aware, like I’ve adverts in my present and that’s how I pay the payments. However I additionally by no means need the episode so brief that the adverts are overwhelming. So whereas I used to do what I referred to as mini myths had been like brief, transient episodes. Now I don’t actually suppose that I’ve the flexibility to be that transient anymore as a result of I’m too obsessive about the entire intricacies within the historical world, like that’s simply include what number of years I’ve been doing this. But in addition I by no means need to launch episodes which might be so brief that the adverts turn into excessive. So it’s at all times like a juggling act with that as effectively, which wasn’t actually the query that you just requested. However yeah, it’s all occurring in actual time for essentially the most half. And I do attempt to batch put together so usually I’ll do this with if I’m doing a studying episode, as a result of I can do these a little bit simpler. So if I’m having a day the place I can simply bang out a few of these, I’ll, or if I’ve a bunch of conversations, I attempt to edit them in order that they’re able to go. As an illustration, like all my Sparta conversations are able to go now. And I’m working extra on the analysis ones as we go. Sorry, my, I’m making an attempt to not breathe instantly into my microphone, however I’m speaking an excessive amount of, my respiration is troubling.
In order that’s mainly how I deal with these. My aim is at all times to have like at the very least a month ready prematurely. However as a result of they’re so labor intensive, and I battle with ADHD, that was not an issue till I grew to become full time with the podcast. And now it’s very arduous to do issues prematurely as a result of I want the deadline so as to power my mind to do them. So it turns into, yeah it’s tough, however that’s at all times a aim. It’s to work forward.
Meredith: Wow, that’s actually fascinating. I’m listening to the Sparta collection for what it’s price. And I completely like it. It’s so fascinating. And I really feel like whenever you pay attention, you may really feel like they really feel like laborers of affection and like a real dedication to you being as thorough and complete and considerate as potential about this. These are actually fascinating ideas. And I’m like, what do you, why do you even use sources? How do you discover your sources for these very complicated and in-depth tales?
Liv: The Sparta ones for one, thanks. I’m glad to listen to individuals are having fun with the Sparta ones. I’ve heard it from a number of folks and it really, prefer it makes a extremely massive distinction as a result of these are like a whole, like me stepping out of all of my consolation zones and speaking about not solely historical past, however this a part of historical past that I’m not that aware of. I did my BA, however I’m 10 years previous now. And what do I bear in mind from it? Not practically sufficient. And so the historical past ones are rather more daunting for me and I’m questioning whether or not I’m simply rambling and sounding like I make any sense. However to this point, so good.
However so for the analysis of the Sparta collection, the one approach I used to be in a position to do it’s that the assistant that I employed final yr, Michaela Smith, is one wonderful, however two, she is learning classics in college. And so she not solely has a more energizing grasp on all of this, however she additionally has entry to school publications and college libraries and every thing. So fortunately, like the entire analysis, basically she pulled every thing that we may wish after which put it into a way by which I might then use it. And we’ve been engaged on the scripts collectively quite a bit in a approach that we don’t for the mythology as a result of I, it’s simply me storytelling for the time being. However for these ones, there’s much more she’s been writing a ton based mostly on her personal analysis and information.
After which I’ll go in and make it extra my voice, my humor, all these various things and like flesh it out with what I need to say and make it rather less tutorial as a result of she’s caught in that headspace, which is de facto useful for me. And I’ll simply choose by it and alter what I want. So for the Sparta one which’s been completely based mostly on her, however in the case of the mythology, like I’ve now spent so a few years doing this, just like the analysis strategies I exploit now versus 5 years in the past are unbelievably completely different. So the place I used to simply Google issues and see what I might discover and piece stuff collectively or I had one e-book of Greek myths that I used to be doing that and it was like, a retelling e-book, like a e-book, a scholar wrote of Greek myths moderately than the unique sources. And now I’m like, it’s very uncommon that I’ll use something that’s not a major supply like from the traditional world. And when it’s, it’s this two quantity set that I’ve, which is totally ineffective to anybody who’s simply coming at mythology from a interest standpoint.
And for any individual like me, it’s deeply so useful. It’s referred to as early Greek myths by Timothy Gantz. And it’s like a supply e-book. Principally this tutorial went by and picked out each reference to each character in each historical supply. And he places all of them collectively and talks about what’s the similar and what’s completely different and what these bizarre issues are and who mentioned what and when and he usually has sources which might be fragmentary or partially misplaced in a approach that it’s usually arduous to search out that as effectively. In order that’s utterly invaluable. There’s additionally an internet site that’s like a lifesaver as a result of it compiles plenty of historical sources as effectively. So mainly I’ll say I’m fairly acquainted now with the place to search out historical sources. I’ve so many books and so many various locations the place I can discover them.
So it’s simply plenty of piercing by one million completely different sources making an attempt to stay to unique sources or historical sources moderately or, students writing about these sources and it’s fairly wild. However I’ve simply turned it into an artwork at this level and may just about discover something.
Meredith: Yeah, sounds prefer it. Someplace associated to the trailer for the present or at the very least it was after I first began listening, which was a number of years in the past, you referenced, you mentioned, Hey guys, like begin at this episode quantity. And I feel the message was one thing to the impact of round this episode is whenever you really feel such as you honed in on the way to inform a narrative and the way we needed the podcast to be.
And one, I discovered that even simply desirous about it now as somebody who’s finished like 10 episodes of a podcast, I discover that actually comforting as a result of it’s like, yep, you bought to do plenty of these earlier than you actually work out the way to do it. However you’re so good at it. Are you able to inform me a little bit bit about what you discovered about storytelling and podcasting from these early days?
Liv: Oh, God, yeah. The factor about podcasts that’s each wonderful and so irritating is that they only reside eternally, regardless of whenever you recorded them. Episodes I recorded and put on the market 5 and a half years in the past, individuals are coming to them as in the event that they’re a model new factor they’re listening to for good or unhealthy. It may be troubling. What you’re referencing is definitely the very first episode of the present has a disclaimer up on the high. It says round this episode, I obtained higher at what I’m doing, I obtained higher at researching, I obtained a greater microphone, blah, blah, blah. And so I do have that on the very starting of the primary episode. And does it persuade folks?
No, everybody begins with the primary episode. My first episode is at all times the primary downloads of my whole present, together with I feel it was about one tenth of my whole downloads for this yr, which is sort of a reference. So yeah, like 2022, I had a complete of 400 episodes, clearly not launched in 2022. However by the top of the yr, my present had 400 episodes accessible within the feed. And out of these 400, like our whole, I obtained one thing over 10 million, I feel downloads final yr. And a million of these downloads was my first episode.
Why are you doing this to me? It will get so a lot better. As a result of lots of people cease after the primary one too, or go away me critiques the place they’re like, she’s unhealthy at researching. And I’m like I instructed you that I acknowledged it. I’m higher now. It’s nearly like I’ve been doing this for 5 years, and there’s 400 episodes, like possibly the primary 5 aren’t the very best reference factors. Anyway, I really feel very strongly about it. But in addition, they get essentially the most downloads, so that they’re not getting deleted.
However that’s all to say I began this podcast as a interest, explicitly, as a result of I used to be actually depressed, and I hated my job. I’d gone by a full blown quarter life disaster and stop my profession that I’d labored every thing for and moved throughout the nation house ish, however not house. And so it was similar to I used to be in a deeply messy place, and I used to be tremendous depressed, and lonely, and all I did was hearken to podcasts. And even like we talked about earlier than we began recording, such as you develop these sorts of relationships with the podcasters that you just hearken to, they usually’re like mates. And that was simply my entire factor. And I began one purely as a result of I used to be like this might be my factor too, like I might simply do that as a option to move the time to really feel much less depressed, what have you ever.
And that’s 100% why I began the present. And so it was actually piecemeal, it was like, I explicitly keep in mind that in all probability the primary three or 4 episodes, I wrote the script primarily in my cellphone’s notes app whereas I used to be not doing the job that I hated, whereas I used to be sitting in my workplace typing and like I used to be so I used to be studying on like Wikipedia and like different no matter different web sites I might get on my cellphone, on my cellphone whereas I used to be like additionally writing within the notes app. So that they had been very simply they had been a stream of consciousness, however in a really completely different approach from what I do now. And it was simply thrown collectively and simply no matter got here to me.
And so I feel they’re good. And I don’t suppose that they had been unhealthy by way of like storytelling, however they weren’t as correct as I would really like, as detailed, they glossed over plenty of issues. All of the misogynists on the market who hate my present would say that I discussed the patriarchy an excessive amount of. I didn’t actually change that, however I obtained higher at it.
And I feel it’s only a matter of the extra you’re doing it and the extra sources you get to I feel the episodes the place I made a decision I obtained higher at it was after I began the Iliad. And that’s as a result of I used to be studying the Iliad, whereas earlier than I had been studying like books of Greek myths which might be written by folks in the present day, versus the traditional sources. However with the Iliad, I needed to inherently go to the traditional sources and I feel that sort of switched one thing for me. And I noticed the worth of being solely or wherever potential, solely with historical sources, and what that did each for my element and accuracy and so many various issues.
And so yeah, I feel it’s only a matter of it’s simply observe, proper? It’s simply with podcasts, observe stays within the feed eternally. Whereas when you’re writing a novel, you’re going to undergo 10 completely different drafts and nobody’s ever going to see these. However a podcast, particularly whenever you’re not beginning it with an organization backing you with producers with editors with all these various things, such as you’re simply beginning it with nevertheless you’re going to start out it. And yeah, like the primary in all probability 20 episodes of my present or observe that everybody will get to hearken to eternally.
Meredith: One million folks a yr hearken to and perpetuate.
Liv: Yeah. I really simply heard from a professor at a college who was like, I simply need to let you recognize that I assigned your first episode to my class they usually actually cherished it. And she or he mentioned all these extremely form issues. However I used to be like, Oh, God, no, not my first episode. Choose a special one. I’m so a lot better now.
Meredith: I’m wondering, do you suppose that okay, do you suppose they are surely that unhealthy? Or do you suppose you had been, had been you arduous in your set tougher on your self within the early days?
Liv: So I feel unhealthy is the fallacious phrase to make use of by way of how I actually really feel. I don’t suppose that they’re unhealthy. I simply suppose that they’re not an excellent illustration of what my present has been for the final three to 4 years. And I’m pleased with what the present is now. I’m pleased with what it was again then too. Nevertheless it was a special present. It was leisure. It was similar to, right here’s a enjoyable and quippy fantasy. It’s going to be 20 minutes lengthy. It’s going to be actually floor degree. You’re going to have enjoyable. It’s wonderful.
And I don’t suppose there’s something fallacious with that. However what my present is now could be an actual deep dive into the traditional world, the traditional sources, the context, the nuance, the historical past, every thing in a approach that I like. And I feel lots of people additionally simply favor storytelling. So in all probability these early episodes are greatest for them. However I like every thing I’ve discovered and the main points I can go into now and the nuance and the historical past of actually every thing like I’m obsessive about that. And so to me, like I’m simply far more proud. And I feel that my present present is simply higher in all of these respects, however it is sort of a desire factor, in all probability greater than something.
Meredith: If you say historical sources I don’t I’m, are you able to clarify precisely what that’s? I don’t know. I actually know.
Liv: That’s truthful. Yeah. I’m going to make use of plenty of phrases which might be completely regular for me. So please ask about something. However historical sources, I, so what I imply by that’s the sources that truly come from the traditional world. So I learn them in translation, however they’re from the traditional world. So I’m speaking concerning the Iliad, the Odyssey, Homer’s works, quote unquote Homer, he in all probability wasn’t an actual man. However these are the works that we’ve got his identify on. Or the traditional performs, the performs of Euripides and Aeschylus and Sophocles.
These are a few of my favorites to cowl. Euripides is my favourite. He’s the best possible. So these are performs that had been written within the historical world, written within the fifth century BCE carried out within the fifth century. They usually simply survive for us to learn in the present day. So the comparability between one thing that was written in historical Greece and survives for us to learn in translation, like the choice is say books of Greek fantasy which might be written by folks within the final 100 years. So Edith Hamilton is essentially the most well-known, I’d say. However there are such a lot of, I wrote one, mine is a, is an instance of this, folks writing concerning the Greek myths, however from our, from now, simply during the last 100 years.
And infrequently what they’re doing is taking a look at a bunch of various historical sources, they usually’re placing all of it collectively. However usually, they’re doing that, after which they’re inserting their very own narratives and typically biases, just like the e-book that I had that I used to be utilizing on the early days of the podcast, I simply discovered, it’s simply referred to as the Greek myths and prefer it was on sale at a bookstore and I used to be actually broke and doing this only for enjoyable. In order that’s the one I purchased and that’s the one I learn. And I’ve seemed again on elements of it now. And it has all of those utterly invented issues which might be usually tremendous misogynist, and it presents them as if that’s precisely what was mentioned within the precise Greek, the traditional sources, the Greek mythology.
Whereas that is completely a person inserting his personal wild insults to ladies which might be like not within the historical sources in any respect. So usually whenever you’re studying these ones, and sadly, they’re essentially the most accessible, they’re essentially the most complete, they’re the simplest approach so that you can discover the entire tales similar to an on a regular basis individual accessing them. However they’ll usually be tremendous inaccurate by way of what we do know concerning the historical world. They usually can usually be, as a result of for essentially the most half, every thing’s been written by males up till very not too long ago, they’ll usually be actually misogynistic. And also you don’t know whenever you suppose like the traditional world was tremendous misogynistic, however it wasn’t that unhealthy. Like this man may even make it worse, which is saying one thing. Yeah, so it’s like that’s the large distinction and why I’m so particular now the place I’m going to be referring to the traditional sources wherever potential.
Meredith: So you’re taking what I understand as a really intentionally intersectional lens when telling and decoding these myths. And I’m curious if, and also you’re answering it, however a query I got here into this desirous to ask you was, do you suppose that these myths initially spring from a patriarchal heterosexual lens? Or is {that a} extra latter day retelling that we’re nonetheless disentangling ourselves from? I don’t know if that’s clear. Principally, I’m questioning, I used to be desirous to ask you when you thought the myths began off as sexist as they appear.
Liv: The primary phrasing or query I feel is even higher. And I utterly get it. So I’m completely going to reply that as a result of it’s a little bit little bit of each in a approach that I feel is de facto fascinating. So there’s going to be quite a bit right here. Principally, the traditional sources as we’ve got them now had been completely developed in a patriarchal society. Patriarchal, sure, heterosexual, no, which I feel is fascinating. So the time during which these items like say the Iliad and the Odyssey, I’m simply going to make use of these as the very best instance as a result of they’re additionally the earliest surviving sources we’ve got from historical Greece. So that they’re from concerning the eighth or ninth centuries BCE, a number of the oldest.
So that they had been developed in a patriarchal society. They had been developed round that point. They won’t have been written down till later as a result of every thing comes from an oral storytelling custom. So round that eighth, ninth century, these had been oral tales that had been instructed by touring bards. This is the reason we expect Homer was in all probability not an actual individual. It was in all probability plenty of touring bards that will journey the Greek world. They’d inform these tales, however they’d sing them their songs set to music.
So it’s not even simply poetry, like they’re completely songs set to music, they’d sing them in entrance of a bunch of individuals, night time after night time, issues would change as a result of there have been completely different folks singing them. So all of them sung concerning the Iliad, all of them sung concerning the wrath of Achilles, however they’d insert issues, change issues, alter, presumably based mostly on the place they had been telling the story to whom, all of this stuff they’d need to like characteristic that area extra closely or there’s all these completely different connections that might make and why this stuff had been always altering as a result of it was solely ever spoken aloud. After which finally they had been written down into issues that we’ve got survived in the present day. So that they had been each developed and written down in a patriarchal society. Nonetheless,
the teams that existed in the identical areas earlier than and influenced the gods that exist within the Greek mythology that we all know had been, nevertheless lengthy, far again, in all probability an excellent 1000 years earlier than, they had been matriarchal in a approach, or we expect that they had been, we don’t have writing, however we’ve got plenty of collectible figurines which might be ladies which have breasts and every thing. We now have plenty of those who recommend that they had been typically pretty matriarchal, if not utterly, like they had been, they worshiped goddess far more than they did by the point of the works that we’ve got, if that makes any sense within the Bronze Age and earlier, they worshiped ladies much more.
And on their very own there’s plenty of goddesses that had been in all probability developed in that point after which handed right down to turn into the goddesses of Greek fantasy, Athena, Aphrodite, Gaia. They initially in all probability had been extra goddess-based after which they only grew to become these lesser characters that they’re within the works that we’ve got. Lots of it’s simply based mostly on archaeology, not textual content, as a result of we don’t have, we don’t have tales from that point. We solely have if we’ve got any writing, it tends to be, like, actually sensible what existed within the palaces on the time.
And so all to say, like, all to say they had been all developed in that world, however additionally they have these leanings of goddesses. And you may really feel the place these goddesses are available. Aphrodite is extremely robust. She is extremely sexually transgressive. She will get to do no matter she needs. And she or he’s married, however she doesn’t, she’s not along with her husband very a lot. She has children with a bunch of different folks. She is a extremely good instance of this goddess that in all probability got here to us by an initially matriarchal society and changed into what we all know of Aphrodite in the present day. And so there’s quite a bit in there. However in the case of the heterosexual facet, that’s, for essentially the most half, one thing that happened extra when Christianity took maintain and that we’re nonetheless pulling aside in the present day. The traditional Greeks weren’t significantly heterosexual, however additionally they weren’t gay in the way in which that we consider it now. They, plenty of completely different city-states, primarily Athens and Sparta, or Sparta was a little bit bit completely different. I’m going to speak about it in the case of Athens, as a result of they’d this observe referred to as pederasty, which is tremendous gross.
As a result of what it’s that older males would have a younger man slash boy who they’d mentor, however it was additionally an inherently sexual relationship. And it was, like, it was positively affection-based and romantic at occasions as effectively. They normally had wives as effectively. So there’s this actually, they only didn’t think about sexuality like we did. There’s no notion of homosexual, straight, bi, no matter. There’s simply nothing. It’s simply no matter is occurring. They didn’t marry the identical gender or issues like that. However they positively had sexual relationships. And if ladies did, amongst different ladies, we don’t actually have it clear as a result of they didn’t actually consider it that approach.
They in all probability wouldn’t have seen it as intercourse. So it didn’t are available, however it was in all probability occurring quite a bit. However as a result of it wasn’t penetrative, they didn’t see it as intercourse. And so we don’t hear about it. It’s actually fascinating. We do have the poet Sappho from the Island of Lesbos. She is why we’ve got the phrase lesbian as a result of she wrote love songs to ladies. And she or he was a lesbian as a result of she was from the Island of Lesbos. And that’s actually the place the phrase comes from. So there may be that. However she’s a one-off. And lots of people will let you know that her love poem songs weren’t about ladies, that she was writing them for a person to present to a lady as a result of they prefer to utterly erase her sexuality, no matter it
was. It’s actually fascinating. However, yeah, mainly, the heterosexuality that we assign to all of that’s positively Christian slash trendy. But in addition it’s simply it’s important to ignore every thing you recognize about gender and sexuality. In relation to the traditional world, in an interesting approach, I might go on eternally.
So I’ll cease myself now.
Meredith: Now, that’s so fascinating. I need to ensure that I’ve it proper. As you’re speaking, I’m nearly picturing a chemistry set. That sounds bizarre. Nevertheless it’s like these historical prototypical myths are, this liquid that then by these completely different lenses of the tradition of the time will get distilled in several methods.
So it’s if I find yourself, I feel I’ve the order proper, however right me if I’m fallacious. So Bronze Age, in all probability extra matriarchal, a number of the Greek goddesses that we all know had been in all probability larger gamers and worshiped a bit greater than it’s into the traditional Greeks, the place there’s not essentially a heterosexual lens, however there’s actually a patriarchal lens utilized to the mores of the tales. After which we sadly lose a ton of the traditional texts. After which there’s these Bards in additional like darkish, round, did you say round 800 BCE?
Liv: So the Bards are literally like actually early historical Greece. Oh, okay. And yeah. So and I’ll make clear too, it’s in all probability earlier than the Bronze Age, the place it was matriarchal. However the Bronze Age has a little bit bit extra of it leftover. However the Bronze Age is the place we first get, like, all the foremost stuff that we take into consideration. However there is no such thing as a, or there’s minimal writing that comes from that point. So there’s plenty of completely different durations in historical Greece. The Bronze Age is like 2000 BCE to 1200-ish. After which there’s this massive decline. Lots of people debate plenty of various things about what occurred.
So I received’t strive to try this. However then there may be like this early Iron Age interval, the place it’s actually transitional. We’re coping with a whole change in writing programs. So the writing that we’ve got from the Bronze Age there are like parts that come into the traditional Greek that we all know now, however it’s fairly completely different. After which that’s when we’ve got this emergence of the oral storytelling custom. So we’re speaking like nearly proper after the Bronze Age. After which there’s the Archaic interval, which comes after that, which is like a number of the historical Greece that we consider, just like the Persian Wars. That’s just like the sixth, seventh centuries. After which we transfer into the Classical interval, which is what you actually consider. That’s when all of the philosophers are round. That’s when all of the playwrights are round. That’s when Athens goes to battle with Sparta. After which from there, it’s just like the hellenistic interval, which comes after Alexander the Nice and all of this, after which the Roman interval. So mainly, like all of that’s patriarchal. Beforehand, there are these goddess collectible figurines that we expect recommend a matriarchal society, at the very least in some areas.
However yeah, the storytelling is definitely like oral storytelling of the touring bards is just like the earliest writing or tales that we’ve got now. Additionally, I noticed, so the early Iron Age is usually referred to as the Darkish Ages. It’s an excellent problematic time period although, really, as a result of Darkish Ages recommend one thing concerning the folks when really what it simply means is a scarcity of sources, which is why we’ve got the Darkish Ages, the time interval I don’t even know, like extra not too long ago, I’m actually unhealthy with every thing after BC. Nevertheless it simply refers to a scarcity of sources, however it suggests one thing concerning the people who finally ends up being dangerous. However in Greece, they name it the Darkish Ages, however it’s really the early Iron Age interval as a result of it’s not darkish. We now have writing, we’ve got proof, like all these various things clarify it’s not really a Darkish Ages. However folks do typically name it that also. However yeah, that’s just like the early Darkish Ages. It’s just like the Greek Darkish Ages versus a thousand years later, when there’s one other quote unquote Darkish Ages.
Meredith: In order that is smart. Sure. So the oral custom is going on. And that’s occurring earlier than the extra classical period. Is that proper?
Liv: Yeah. Yeah. In order that’s after we obtained just like the Iliad and the Odyssey and a lot extra that we don’t that has been misplaced or by no means written down within the first place. After which the classical interval is the place we get a lot of writing as a result of it’s when the philosophers are coming in, they’re writing a lot stuff. Plato wrote approach an excessive amount of. He was excessive. After which the playwrights the place we’ve got so lots of their performs surviving and tons of that we all know are lacking. After which there’s additionally like we solely have three surviving tragedians. So writers of tragedy, after we know there have been so many extra, however solely three like work from three of them survive.
After which there are the comedy writers too, of the classical interval. So there’s simply a lot content material from the classical interval. Whereas within the archaic interval, there’s much less and within the early Iron Ages, there’s even much less. So yeah, it’s simply sort of the development of that. However one factor that’s actually vital to consider is that every thing we have a tendency to speak about in the case of historical Greece from the philosophers to the playwrights to simply this common thought of what we consider for the classical interval broadly. And like that sort of influences how we see historical Greece typically tends to come back from Athens. Athens was a significant participant in that interval. However they weren’t as massive earlier.
They usually actually weren’t just like the be all and finish all of historical Greece is simply that’s the place the writing that not solely the writing that survives to us in the present day tends to come back from, however significantly additionally the writing that individuals have been learning for the final 1000 years. And over the previous few many years and centuries, I’d say, individuals are beginning to have a look at issues from different areas. However up till this level, we’re actually closely influenced by Athens. So every thing comes by this actually robust ethnocentric lens that influences what we expect. And so Athens was tremendous patriarchal. Athens, ladies in Athens, their lives sucked. However we will’t say that with certainty about the remainder of Greece. Their lives had been completely different in Sparta, like marginally higher, however principally simply completely different. After which elsewhere, there’s like much more sorts of query marks. So plenty of what we are likely to say about historical Greece, particularly within the classical interval and archaic too, to an extent, is rather like Athens.
Whereas Athens is a small a part of the bigger Greece, which can also be an excellent reminder that historical Greece was not a unified place by any means. They had been at all times combating with one another. We name them historical Greece now, however it was like a bunch of small states that typically would group up with each other. However finally, they had been all like particular person folks, particular person like states, and doing their very own factor, writing their very own stuff, having their very own dialects of Greek, like all that. It was actually broadly unfold out. And we simply now put all of it underneath one umbrella of historical Greece.
Meredith: So for the sources that aren’t from Athens of that point, have they at all times been round and simply of much less curiosity? Or had been these different areas simply a lot much less prolific that we’ve got to attempt to surmise issues concerning the tradition versus Athens?
There’s such a physique of labor we will actually dig in. Like why haven’t we targeted extra exterior of Athens but?
Liv: I’m much less sure about that. That’s extra of a query for academia, I feel, and particularly additionally how a lot exists from past Athens. Broadly, as a result of I’m researching Sparta now, I’ve a greater thought of that. And in the case of Sparta, nearly every thing we learn about Sparta was really written not by Spartans in any respect. Most of it was by Athenians who had been their enemies. So it’s actually fascinating making an attempt to piece aside what occurred in Sparta. We now have writing from a few poets of Sparta, however simply poets. So we’ve got a little bit of poetry, however it doesn’t actually inform us something concerning the society. So I’d say it’s in all probability 90% that the work from Athens is what really survived, primarily as a result of Athens was a spot the place they had been extra concerned with writing issues down for survival.
It wasn’t that they had been smarter or extra fascinating, it’s simply that they had been particularly extra concerned with issues which might be survivable now. They had been the large place for the tragedies, the performs, and in order that’s what survives from there, that’s the place the philosophers had been. After which simply typically, plenty of it’s not coincidence as a result of you may see why, however it isn’t as a result of they had been significantly particular. They had been like a powerhouse, however they’re additionally simply concerned with stuff that occurs to outlive. But in addition the important thing to all of that is to ensure that one thing to outlive from the traditional world, tons of of various folks and teams need to make aware choices for it to outlive, aside from a number of actually uncommon instances. As a result of the bodily work from, say the Iliad and the Odyssey, the place it was in all probability written down within the seventh century, so like 600 BCE, to ensure that one thing to outlive from that point, it doesn’t simply survive within the type that existed again then, as a result of for essentially the most half, except it was written all on clay tablets that someway survived, which is unlikely, this stuff may have fallen aside.
And so it tends to be like folks need to have copied them for posterity. Lots of that is available in in the course of the Byzantine interval the place they’d all these libraries and the Byzantines had been copying plenty of stuff. So we’ve got the Byzantine interval and that space to thank for many of what survives in the present day. And so like quite a bit over time, so many various folks needed to make these choices to maintain copying these works in order that they survive. So it’s additionally prefer it was as a result of the Athenians wrote down plenty of issues. After which it was as a result of these completely different folks had been within the Athenians writing. After which subsequent, like tons of of years later, these folks had been . So it’s only a collection of various people who we’ve got no management over having to have determined that they prefer to preserve a factor excluding actually uncommon issues, however actually fascinating ones. So we all know that there have been a ton of Tragedians writing these Greek tragedies yearly, they’d this massive theater competition, they usually carried out a bunch of them yearly.
We now have a bunch, we all know a bunch of names of people that wrote them down, or who created these performs, however we solely have surviving performs from three completely different folks. East Coast and Sophocles, we’ve got, I feel it’s like between six and 9 performs that survive from every of them that we will learn now. And people received’t survive. And the identical common quantity from Euripides survive as a result of they had been taught in Byzantine faculties. So the Byzantine college system used them to show their college students. And so we’ve got all these copies that had been in a position to survive as a result of the Byzantines, who had been in all probability what they had been nearly a thousand years after, if not like near that, as a result of they had been selecting to check this stuff, they survived for us in the present day.
Except for Euripides the place he had a bunch of performs the place they weren’t taught in class. So that they’re the performs that like quite a bit much less folks cared about, they had been much less in style, folks in all probability thought they had been unhealthy it’s like all filmmaker or artist artistic now, you’re gonna have works that aren’t splendid, and individuals are not going to recollect them or they’re, and it’s not going to be for good causes. And on your sake, for the opposite playwrights, we don’t know what their work was unhealthy, we don’t know the unhealthy ones as a result of they’re misplaced. By Euripides, we’ve got a bunch that survived as a result of this Byzantine collector had all of Euripides’ performs on these scrolls. And the scrolls every contained I don’t know, a handful, possibly 10 performs in a single scroll. They had been alphabetical. And one in all his scrolls survives. So it’s like English letters H by Ok, I feel or one thing. It’s like just a few completely different letters within the alphabet that this one’s this one scroll survives.
And so we now have I feel it’s like possibly 10 of Euripides’ performs which might be meh, they’re those that individuals didn’t love within the historical world. We’re not learning in faculties. They’re simply the random performs on this letter group. They usually’re referred to as the alphabet performs now. And mainly, as a result of this one factor managed to outlive, not deliberately, it was random, we’ve got all these performs that we wouldn’t in any other case have. And we’ve got this indication that not every thing was excellent. However that mentioned, too, we’ve got these performs that weren’t beloved within the historical world, however are like, so fascinating to check now.
So one in all them is Helen, which I’ve lined on the present. And Helen is so fascinating, as a result of it’s this alternate universe of the Trojan Warfare, the place Helen doesn’t go to Troy in any respect, this ghost model of her goes to troy. And as an alternative, she is dropped at Egypt, the place she simply likes dwelling, ready all of it out for all of that point. And we’d not have that play in any other case, as a result of no person cared about it within the historical world. However we’ve got it now. And it’s fascinating and peculiar and funky. And it’s simply utterly random, dumb luck that we even have it to learn in the present day. I’m actually obsessive about the alphabet, if that isn’t apparent.
Meredith: So whenever you had Emily, of the Fuck Boys of Literature on, and that was the primary time that I actually heard about this. And also you had been speaking about the concept that there’s actually solely like a handful of the best hits that had been actually preserved and survived. However there are such a lot of different texts from this time that we simply don’t have entry to.
And it actually blew my thoughts. However you speaking concerning the various universe Helen of Troy play, it makes me give it some thought. And in 500 years, individuals are like learning our Netflix cues for all times claims about our tradition. And it’s yeah, these weren’t that good. Nobody was that into them. However we did watch them after dinner typically.
Liv: Yeah, no, there’s simply a lot. And I feel we’ve got this concept that every thing from the traditional world is sensible and interesting and funky. Nevertheless it’s that’s as a result of that’s the stuff that sufficient folks determined was sensible and interesting and funky that it exists in the present day. And in the present day, we don’t take into consideration that as a result of every thing is inherently a lot extra preservable between the web and similar to the standard of books and all these various things, prefer it’s simply so completely different. However again then with the issues that they’d and the writing constructions and the overall custom, which was like, particularly with artwork on this approach, the custom was to not write it down.
The custom was to simply go sing it to your mates. And so it needed to be actually deliberately written down as a result of there was like a objective behind it. However what’s actually fascinating is how we all know all of the issues that we don’t know, as a result of there’s obtained to be quite a bit that we don’t know existed, however it did, however we’ll by no means know. However there’s quite a bit that we all know existed and it’s misplaced. And that’s simply because different folks would reference it of their writing and their writing survives.
So any individual can be like, so there’s this poet, there’s these two poets the place they wrote a ton, however not plenty of it survives. Pherecrates is one and Simonides is one other. Pherecrates, I feel is the one I’m pondering of the place it’s we all know he wrote a lot mythology, however nearly nothing survives in full. Whereas as an alternative, it’s any individual like, say, Pseudo-Apollodorus was like, Pherecrates wrote this entire story about this and this. However we don’t have it, we all know it existed as a result of apollodorus wrote that it existed. So we like know that he learn it, however we will’t learn it. And I feel really it would even be Pherecrates, any individual wrote a model of this story the place Helen doesn’t go to Troy, this ghost of her goes. We all know that it wasn’t invented by Euripides. He obtained the concept from an earlier poet, however not a lot of that poet’s work survives. We simply comprehend it existed in any respect.
Meredith: Oh my God. Have you ever seen the play Arcadia by Tom Stoppard? It’s my all time favourite performs and possibly one in all my all time favourite works of literature. And there’s a, one of many primary characters in it’s she’s within the 1800s. And she or he’s obsessed and so saddened to the, to distraction by all of those historical texts that had been misplaced and fires and it’s, and truly in some methods the play is about like humanity coming to grips with the truth that we are going to lose and neglect issues on a regular basis and we’ve got to love reinvent it always.
And this dialog is making me take into consideration that quite a bit.
Liv: Yeah. I take into consideration this stuff the entire time. Like I’ve a working listing of all of the Euripides performs that I do know existed, however I can’t learn and I’m mad about it on a regular basis. However there’s additionally so many massive query marks about like variations of tales or one factor that’s come up for me not too long ago is there’s this actually well-known fantasy of Cupid and Psyche and everybody thinks of Cupid and Psyche or actually everybody in my circles. It’s a extremely main story, however the one model we’ve got that tells that story is written by a Roman novelist named Apuleus.
And I feel it’s fairly clear that he made most of it up, however we will’t be certain. There’s no proof that the story of their entire relationship existed in any comparable approach within the Greek world. And so we’ve got to imagine that he made it up. But in addition he might have learn one other factor and developed his story based mostly off of that’s misplaced and we’ll by no means know. Or the little bit of the Trojan Warfare the place the Computer virus exists and the place Achilles, will get the arrow by his heel and we get all that, all of that stuff that’s like essentially the most well-known elements of the Trojan Warfare. None of that truly exists in an historical Greek supply that survives. It exists in a Roman supply. And we all know that he was basing his work off of Greek sources that survived for him, however don’t survive for us now. So we all know the Computer virus and Achilles’ heel existed in Greek mythology and in Greek historical past, however we don’t even have that bodily work.
Meredith: I don’t need this to be a very gimmicky query. However I’d hate getting a query like this for the file. However when you solely protect one Greek fantasy for the subsequent millennia have you learnt which one it will be?
Liv: Oh, I do know I’ve a solution. I don’t suppose it’s like a terrific reply based mostly on a ton of various elements that in all probability ought to be put into such an vital query. However I’d simply say the Odyssey as a result of it’s nice. And I like the Odyssey. Yeah. In order that’s my favourite straightforward go-to. No, Greek fantasy, use a Greek fantasy. So I’m going to say the Odyssey. Yeah. As a result of in any other case, I’d have mentioned Euripides play, however performs are completely different. They don’t rely. It’s wonderful.
Meredith: And with out the Odyssey, you’d by no means have had your VHS mini collection.
Liv: Precisely. Yeah, I’d have by no means turn into this. It’s nonetheless my favourite Greek epic. Odysseus is my problematic love. He does plenty of unhealthy issues and I like him eternally. Yeah, it’s all of the Odyssey for me. I do know we don’t have an excessive amount of time left. And I’ve, I’m sorry, I rant quite a bit.
Meredith: I cherished it. And I presume. So I need to speak a little bit bit about Medusa with you. And I do know that it’s one thing that you just talked a few bit. You’ve talked with different friends and had actually fascinating questions and conversations round. And I additionally know I’m not on Twitter, however I do know you’ve talked about on the podcast that that is one which for you appears to gentle up your Twitter everytime you’re tweeting about Medusa.
And I, I don’t know, I’ve at all times been actually drawn to it for some cause. And I shouldn’t say it for some cause. I feel there’s plenty of complicated issues about ladies’s energy in that fantasy. And it actually hits on some archetypal nerves in plenty of methods. So possibly you can give us a one minute abstract of Medusa. And like, why do you suppose it hits such a nerve with people in the present day?
Liv: Okay, I’m going to do it actually, it’s going to be fast. And thus I’ll communicate plenty of phrases very quick. So Medusa, oh gosh, there’s a lot. So the earliest type of Medusa is that this man named Hesiod. And he says that she was a Gorgon. He doesn’t describe what a Gorgon was. He says that she’s a Gorgon who was born to Forkis and Keto, who’re like sea monster goddesses or gods and goddesses.
After which he says that she suffered a woeful destiny. She was basically assaulted by Poseidon and like finally Perseus reduce her head off. And in order that’s just like the earliest type of her story, like basically all of it. After which like a bunch of various issues change, there’s a number of completely different variations of it. However the massive one which will get picked up is Ovid, who’s a Roman writer, he’s writing in all probability at the very least seven or 800 years after Hesiod wrote that earlier bit.
And Ovid has this entire story the place really she’s this stunning girl and he or she’s a priestess of Athena and Poseidon once more assaults her however in Athena’s temple after which she will get punished by Athena for that her hair turns to snakes and he or she turns folks to stone. After which once more, Perseus comes and kills her. And so these are just like the fundamentals of it. However what folks I feel take maintain due to popular culture and so many various issues is this concept that she’s this terrifying monster who’s out to harm folks and deserves dying by Perseus. However none of that truly exists within the Greek fantasy. That was in all probability a minute.
Meredith: No, that’s so just like the bizarre story in that within the telling of it, she’s punished for being assaulted basically.
Liv: In Ovid. Yeah.
Meredith: Okay. However then prefer it’s there’s this cultural understanding of her as this monster who loves turning folks to stone.
Liv: Yeah, none of that exists in Greek fantasy and actuality in historical Greek sources. So earlier than Ovid and never Ovid, she isn’t ever proven as hurting anyone. We don’t know that she turned anyone to stone. We simply know that she might.
Yeah, like we don’t have proof that she ever did it. We simply know that like bodily she might and we actually solely know that as a result of her head afterwards turns issues to stone. However till her head is bodily caught from her physique, she doesn’t really hurt anyone. And Perseus isn’t despatched to kill her as a result of she’s harmful.
That’s a extremely frequent false impression. Like he’s not despatched there as a result of she’s inflicting bother or like she’s harming folks. He’s despatched there as a result of this king of Seriphos needs him useless in order that he can marry Perseus’s mother. And the way in which that he thinks he can kill off Perseus with out angering the mom is to simply be like, hey, go get me her head, show that you just’re a hero, go deliver me Medusa’s head. So it’s purely that he wants the top. It’s not like stopping any hurt or saving anyone. Prefer it’s simply completely randomly picked as a result of he, like this king, thinks that it’s going to kill Perseus to get her head.
However yeah, so like this entire thought develops that she’s like folks on Twitter have instructed me by folks, I imply males, have instructed me that like the explanation she needed to be killed is as a result of she was terrorizing the lands and like her dying alleviated a stress on the earth. And it’s all in your head, dude. And I can see your misogyny displaying like what are you speaking about? Nothing about that exists in Greek fantasy. The worst we’ve got is in Ovid the place she is surrounded by statues and the implication is that she turned folks to stone. However once more, that’s solely an Ovid and he’s already made her a sufferer of assault. Like he already makes her a sympathetic character. So it doesn’t even add something to the argument that she hurts folks.
Meredith: All proper, possibly this can be a good option to wrap it up is that I like the Greek myths. I’m a really linear thinker. And one factor that I discover complicated about them is I’m like, the place do I begin? Like, how do I, proper now, it usually appears to me like, it’s like making an attempt to grasp an eight season TV present by beginning in season 4. So if somebody was like, I actually desire a foundational understanding of the who’s who and the fundamental narrative right here, the place would you set them?
Liv: Oh so the primary factor I inform folks whenever you’re coming to Greek fantasy is you may’t have that viewpoint. If you wish to really perceive it from the traditional world, if you wish to perceive it by a totally trendy perspective, however lose the entire historical nuance, then you may choose up any e-book of Greek myths. I’d advocate one written by a lady as a result of we have a tendency to have the ability to push apart plenty of the misogyny. Edith Hamilton is fairly good. It’s very previous. So it does have extra of that.
I wrote one, however it’s very floor degree. So there’s books. However the factor about Greek fantasy is that again to the oral storytelling I discussed, that’s the approach that they meant the tales to be understood. And it was by no means about linearity. It was by no means about narrative construction. It was by no means about mainly it’s important to neglect every thing you suppose you recognize about what a narrative or a story ought to be. As a result of that was not the intention of any of those. Like they had been instructed to similar to share tales round a fireplace or to clarify one thing within the pure world or to clarify the significance of sure areas and cities.
Like each space of historical Greece has some story linked them to Heracles as a result of he was just like the hero for all Greece. And they also would all make up their very own tales of how he was linked to their tradition. And infrequently it’s 5 phrases. And that’s like an entire story. As a result of it didn’t, it wasn’t about what we consider as tales. It was concerning the general like objective of what was being shared. So I feel one of the best ways to grasp it by way of the traditional world is to disregard every thing you suppose you need to learn about tales and to simply choose up something truthfully. However I perceive that that’s tough.
So there are like, gods, I don’t know, there’s simply there’s an excessive amount of to know to place it into one straightforward factor. I feel my present is an effective reference level as a result of you may nearly begin on any episode, so long as it’s not one that claims like half two of three in, within the title. And I’m going to present you sufficient background and stuff. However I feel that the important thing and what I feel makes the way in which I’m coming at these myths, significantly related for the myths themselves, is the way in which that they initially had been meant to be instructed, which is that it wasn’t about this construction, it wasn’t about understanding all of it. You can not have in your head a timeline as a result of timelines didn’t exist.
As a result of these tales had been instructed over 800 years. Quite a bit modifications over 800 years. So it’s simply not about, it’s not about dotting the I’s and crossing the T’s as a result of that they didn’t care. It was like 800 years of tradition melded into these tales. And so the way in which I do it’s story based mostly. So you may simply click on a narrative you need to hear. But in addition, I give sufficient background and historical past and all these completely different variations and why and every thing. So I feel, yeah, I’ve plenty of episodes to hearken to it’s daunting. However I feel that’s a great way to grasp the way it labored and why as a result of it’s a lot extra fascinating when you perceive the why.
Meredith: All proper. That’s fascinating. Is there a specific episode of yours that you just play when you simply need to dip your toes and begin right here?
Liv: Let’s say the Theogony, not my first episode, which can also be concerning the Theogony, however I did one final yr or the yr earlier than the place I went again and I did a way more detailed have a look at the Theogony. And I ought to clarify what the Theogony means. It actually simply means just like the start of the gods.
So basically, it’s just like the origin story of the entire gods. So it introduces a bunch of individuals and the place they arrive from and why and yeah, I don’t know. There’s simply, there’s a lot. There’s an excessive amount of.
Meredith: No, we will discover that Theogony and put it within the present notes for positive. And I’d additionally say I like your e-book. So I’ve your e-book. It’s referred to as Greek mythology, the gods goddesses and heroes handbook. Illustrations are attractive.
I discovered it a useful reference level. I’m positively like at occasions like, wait, who is that this individual? And so I, for what it’s price, I’d actually advocate that to you. It’s actually been useful and simply so enjoyable to web page by for me.
Liv: Thanks. I feel it’s in all probability, I consider it as being so floor degree and no matter. Additionally, I used to be commissioned to write down it. However that’s why I speak about it like that. And I like it to be clear. However yeah, I do suppose it in all probability is a extremely good place to begin as a result of additionally the entire commissioning side of it from the writer was that they needed a e-book that additionally connects in like the place you may know sure characters from popular culture, which is an effective option to get a grip on what you’re studying and what names you may bear in mind or acknowledge and issues like that. So all of that’s within the e-book.
And it does cowl plenty of form of the introductory degree myths and just like the gods and, why you need to be and what their sort of main tales had been. So yeah, possibly my e-book is an ideal introduction.
Meredith: All proper thanks a lot, Liv. We’ll hyperlink within the present notes every thing you gave us a trillion nice references. We’ll attempt to get in there. And I really feel like I might have picked your mind about these items for hours. You’re such a font of knowledge. Thanks for a way beneficiant you’re together with your data and your expertise.
Liv: Thanks a lot. Thanks a lot. I hope I talked sufficient about content material moderately than Greek myths, however I might in all probability speak about Greek myths eternally.
Meredith: Thanks.
Liv: Thanks.
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Meredith: Okay, everybody, we hope that you just loved our dialog with Liv as a lot as we did.
Ian: Subsequent week, we’ll be speaking with one other podcaster and YouTuber Caroline Winkler.
Meredith: Caroline has a extremely artistic, great YouTube channel with greater than 400,000 subscribers. We talked to her about what it’s prefer to have a profitable profession on YouTube and her new podcast, Not For Everybody.
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Ian: And that’s it people. Thanks a lot for listening.